Lessons To Learn Before You Die
You can’t get through life without learning a few lessons along the way. Guests share their personal stories and tidbits of wisdom with listeners.
Lessons To Learn Before You Die
Create Frameworks for Your Values
Season 2 kicks off with process-minded Greg Toler, who shares his personal frameworks and rules for life that he's developed through years of learning lessons the hard way.
Greg's insights offer practical wisdom applicable to both personal and professional settings. At the heart of this, the key is knowing your values and creating structure to support them.
Listen to learn more about Greg's rules for life, from work-life presence to meeting people where they are but not leaving them there.
About the Guest:
Greg is the COO of Scrappy ABM and Co-founder of BoostIdeal. He’s been in marketing and operations for over 10 years, running in house and consulting with organizations ranging from startups to enterprise. He’s married and has two daughters, so when he’s not working he’s spending time with his family.
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Find me @lessonstolearnbeforeyoudie.
Hi and welcome to Lessons to Learn Before you Die. Today, Greg Toler is joining us. Greg is currently the COO of Scrappy ABM and the co-founder of a recently released product called Boost Ideal. He's been in marketing operations for over 10 years, running in-house and consulting with organizations, and he's married and has two daughters. When he's not working, he's spending his time with his lovely family. Welcome, Greg.
Greg:Thanks, parker, it's good to be here.
Parker:We have talked a lot about your philosophies. You love to share your frameworks and you reference that you have a framework for everything. I even remember a framework for gift giving. You have a framework for everything I even remember a framework for gift giving. So been developed from some of the lessons you've learned. So how do you take lessons that you've learned and develop them into these frameworks, kind of what's the goal and process to that?
Greg:Yeah, that's a good question. So, my, it's an unfortunate look into the way that my brain works. But my brain just works in buckets and structures. I think in processes and optimization, and I'm a bit of a nerd that way. And so when I see things, or when I'm thinking about things, or when most of my lessons or most of my frameworks come from me doing the wrong thing, too many times that I realize, oh, I need to fix this, which is the gift giving framework as an example, I had too many poor holidays that I realized I needed to do something different. Yeah, in a pretty big way. And so it really that's.
Greg:That's where a lot of it's just like my brain is constantly on analysis mode and so I think, okay, well, how can I fix this or how can I optimize this or how can I make it better? And I am not good at much, but I am good at following a process and so my brain kind of backs up and I like to look at things in chunks and in constructs and try and build a way to fix it. And so from that, uh because apparently I'm bad at a lot of things I've just learned over the years that, uh, and just built these kinds of constructs over the years for how I communicate or how I um identify ways to to improve things, and so some of that's personal, some of that's work related, and it's just, uh, if I don't know something or I need to learn something or improve something, my brain tends to put it in a box.
Parker:So what do you do when your frameworks don't match, like sometimes? You can't, you have to go outside the box. What do you do?
Greg:Yeah, that's a good question. I feel like, oh man, that's tough Because my brain is constantly optimizing and evaluating. I'm also relatively self-deprecating and understand that there's a limit to my knowledge, so I'm usually the first person to admit that something that I've created doesn't work. I can get stuck in this analysis phase where I'm trying to solve the broader problem and kind of lose the forest for the trees in that moment.
Parker:You should listen to my procrastination episode. I had a guest who had some really interesting ways to get outside the box.
Greg:I will. I'll have to go back and listen to that, because productive procrastination is definitely something that I do. When I start my day, I have my list of things, like everybody does, right, and I've got my big three that have to get done, and then I start with the little ones, because the theory goes you build some traction, you get a snowball effect to it, but from from me, it's oh, I'm really busy and most of the time the big things I need to do I'm afraid to do uh, or I know the right things to do, but uh, but I'm nervous about uh. I'm literally sitting on one today as we talk about this. That has been making me sweat all morning and uh. So, yeah, that's that's. That's a good point, and now you're accountable.
Parker:You've said that you have to do it.
Greg:I am. I don't know when this is going to get published, but hopefully it's done by then, if not, I'm in big trouble.
Parker:So you have like a list of rules for life that I've heard you mention.
Greg:Can you tell me a bit about what they are and where they came from? Yeah, so my, because I'm a process guy and I years I've been collecting quotes from people and really where the where the list started was, my dad used to say the same like five things over and over again and they just kind of got ingrained into my brain and they weren't like bad things, but things like keep it cleaner than when you found it, or you know different things like that. And my dad actually was the one who first said, at least to me I don't know if he came up with this or not, probably not but meet people where they are, but don't don't leave them there. He also used to say, to never be afraid of the conversation, just like different things like that. That, like he, you knew he was going to say it before he said it. You kind of had this view of like okay, I'm dealing with this and my dad says this all the time, I know he's going to say that, and so from that like just constantly, kind of repeating those things, I realized over the years that like right, wrong or indifferent, I started to do the same thing with people and with things.
Greg:So, like you know, whether I call them rules or whatever you know, one of them is, as you know pretty well from a working perspective, is work half done, is work not done? My rules aren't perfect, and I know that sometimes they're contradictory, because another one is progress is better than perfection, which is one that I say a lot to myself because I get in this. My standard is up here and typically everybody else's expectation is here, but like I shoot for this and so, like, sometimes they're counter to each other in what I think is a healthy tension way. But it really started with just my dad constantly saying the same things and I realized he might have a point in a few of them, and he did it enough times to where I started doing it too, I guess.
Parker:I grew up as a like a horse girl and we always had these like 10 cowboy rules in the bathroom. So every time you went to the bathroom it was like the rules were like if you take something, put it back where you found it, or like it had all I don't know. And it's interesting how those um kind of reinforce and but they do set you up for success, that you're kind of mindful and considerate and in other ways like that um. So this past year reinforced the idea for you that like if something's worth doing, it's worth doing right the first time. Can you tell me about why this year's reinforced that or like what ways it's come up or you've kind of struggled with it?
Greg:Yeah, so if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. The first time has been it was something that actually a mentor of mine used to say all the time that I've attempted to adopt and at one point I did, I did a pretty good job at this from a mentality perspective. But recently in this past year, there's all, there's a lot of things going on. I've always kind of had multiple balls in the air. They're working full time, family building things, consulting, kind of doing, doing all the things all the time. And this past year I realized that like I got into this habit of kind of doing good enough in all of those areas and even even on the family side of things I, you know, would would over-rotate in one area and I would kind of do something for us as a family or kind of do something for for a particular area. Uh, and I found pretty quickly during the first kind of three to four months of the year that all I was doing was kind of kicking the can down the road and creating more problems for myself. Later, Um and um uh, I had a pretty, I had a pretty tough conversation with my wife um uh, wife a little earlier than the half of the year where she was starting to see things pile up just kind of across the board and we were getting ready to travel at that point and there was there was a bunch of kind of compounding things that that started to hit a week or two before we left and I really had to take a look at like, okay, I've really messed up and I thought that I was doing things and getting things done, but I was doing them in a silly example. It was one that I can share.
Greg:We were getting ready to travel and I there was a massive list of things that I needed to get done to, to cut things off and to transition and removing and all sorts of different things and hadn't started registering or changing addresses or changing all of those things Like I I should have been, and I kind of like I'd fill out the paperwork and not not finish it, or like I do one thing but then I'd get distracted doing something else and not do the rest of them.
Greg:And so I started missing bills because I was getting things sent to the wrong place and not a wrong thing.
Greg:And right before the week before we left, we got hit with a pretty big bill that, like I could have easily avoided if I had just set everything up the first time, the way that it was done, and that compounded those types of things.
Greg:As silly of an example as that is, that compounded across a lot of different areas where I was making kind of half processes, thinking I'll fix them in the future, and then things at work started to to get really tight, or with consulting clients, you know, doing kind of enough to get through the next week, but then you would see those things stack up week over week where now I'm three or four weeks in and what I should have been doing incrementally is now a big pile of things that I have to get done kind of last minute, so this week or this year.
Greg:Really about just before halfway through, I realized that like, uh, I was reminded of this and uh realized that like I can't continue to operate this year like that. So I spent about a month digging myself out of the holes that I had continued to put myself in, uh, and have been kind of attempting to to stay on top of things and make sure that, like, if these things are important then I need to do them right the first time and if it's not worth doing right the first time, then it's probably not important enough to spend time on and focus at all.
Parker:So does that mean you feel like you should delegate more or say no more, or?
Greg:Probably a little bit of both, but mostly say no more. A lot of it tends to be you know, what am I prioritizing today, or what is my goal for the next couple of months, and am I saying yes to too many things? Are my priorities misaligned? Do I have a misconception of what is actually important? And some of that's a byproduct of doing so many different things and then also kind of being an in the moment kind of guy and so like when I'm doing something with someone, I want them, for example, to feel like that that's the most important thing, and so I want to say yes to what they want. I want to help people, I want to help them, but then I probably overcommit and spend more time shuffling the cards than I do actually getting the most important things done, because what felt important in the moment in the grand scheme of things probably wasn't holistically important.
Parker:That's fair. So for you it's a prioritization. But I will say you are very good at making people feel in the moment and important. And I had somebody very close to me who I had to have like a heart to heart with because I was like you're always on your phone when you're around me and like you say that this is important and you've carved time out of your day to like make time for this relationship but like your actions aren't showing that and it's like hurtful to me that it feels like you're not really prioritizing this. And they were receptive, but it was like I'm not obviously not going to say who it is, because I don't want them to feel that after I called out, you know, I noticed like a change in their actions, but they were really not great at that. They were trying to juggle a lot but they weren't good at staying in the moment even though they wanted to be. So I give you props for that.
Greg:Well, I appreciate that. It's similar to the concept of this right Like. That's a lesson that I've learned poorly and over lots of mistakes there got to a point in time a couple of years ago, because of doing so many things, I started to realize that, like when I was at work, I was frustrated and thinking about not being able to spend time with my family, and when I was with my family, I spent most of it distantly thinking about work and all the things that weren't done and needed to get done, and my ability to compartmentalize became essentially non-existent. Um, and I remember there was one day, uh, my, my daughter vivian was, I think she was one or two at that point. Uh, and she was talking so she was probably one and a half to two and she was trying to tell me something. Um, and I just remember I her. All I remember is her walking away and I was sitting on the floor looking at my phone. Uh, and she walked away and started telling my wife, who was sitting on the couch at the time, uh, the exact same thing that she was trying to tell me. Uh, and I realized in that moment that I had no clue what she said. Um, and it sorry.
Greg:It hit me really hard because I realized that, like you said, you were going to do this too. Um, it hit me really hard because I realized that, like you said, you're going to do this too. It hit me really hard because I realized that, like I only get so much time with her, not just in life. Everybody says that, right, your kids grow up too fast, which is true, but I also only get so much time during the day because of work. And it hit me that like day because of work.
Greg:And it hit me that, like I, I, something was broken in the way that I worked, that I had to still be thinking about it at home and the way that I was operating at home was broken because I wasn't, I wasn't doing the right thing. So that transitioned into I call it this I don't know where I got it from, but I can't take credit for it I'm sure a work-life presence, because for all of us and I just posted about this on LinkedIn too, but, like, a lot of us work more than we spend time with our family and that, and I will always be like that I don't know that that will ever change, at least not in the short term it's. I know that work will naturally win the time game, and I started then and have been working towards this idea of I have to be productive and present at work so that I can be present at home and let the two bleed together. And that was a very hard lesson learned with with missing more than I wish I probably did early on with my kids.
Parker:Yeah, and you realize kind of what's important and I think building things which you are very good at is important. I know you care about making people's lives better and making things that actually help people. But, yeah, sometimes you're smacked in the face with the reality of of the relationships that are important and that's why I say that picking a good like an important, a good job that you enjoy is important, because you are going to spend more time at work and the people that you work with and I care about, like who my bosses are for that reason.
Greg:But, yeah, sometimes reality is just she punches us in the face sometimes that is uh, and an unfortunate reality for a lot of us, and that's why, like you know, whether, whether it sounds systematic or or cold or not, but like having having some level of construct where I can at least have a baseline or an anchor for to to keep me on track, because I do easily fall back into into rhythms that are probably not great. It's just really important and that's something that I, that I preach to the people that work for me and with me, as well as, like you know, making sure that priorities of family come first and like work will always be there and regardless of how you, how you divide or subdivide that with your, with your own life, even though I don't do it well for myself, it's important, as I say, not as I do Do you know how many times I've said that?
Greg:Yeah exactly, instill that in other people and make it, make it a priority for them as best as I can.
Parker:So actually that kind of makes me think like you've set these rules for yourself to kind of give yourself like some structure, like you said to to approach things. Is it important for you to share that with other people, or is it more just something that you've made for yourself?
Greg:Yeah, so over the years, a lot of it just started with me, but over the years I've started to adapt versions of this that apply in like a corporate setting or work setting or with my team. When I've built things on my own. They naturally kind of transition into things like core values or habits to work with or things that that I do. Some of it is just, um, everybody in my family is a teacher but me, basically, so, uh, I, uh, I, I have the, I have the bent towards that and I did teach for a couple of years and so like it's just kind of a default. That's like I want to communicate things that I've learned or things that that I have worked through. If I see people who are going through similar things, or there's there's a time where you know something that I've I've learned is applicable, I just like sharing that and I think it's important.
Greg:There are some things that are like you know, for instance I said earlier but like work half done is work not done is something that that I, I instill in my team is something like this is how I operate. Like I I'm fine with iterative growth, but like if you say something is done and it's not actually done or you've done it halfway, then I don't consider that done. And generally to the point that we've been talking about, that compounds to issues later, and so it's things like that that like I try and instill as a guideline for for my teams. Not necessarily anything that like I hold as a as a hard fast rule, but yeah do you know what one of my favorites is?
Parker:look, before you ask, because I worked in a library, um at a university, and I was shocked the amount of people who like have no ability to find things themselves or figure it out themselves, and I'm not like it's a good rule, though, to be like hey, try it on your own first, see if you can find it and then come back. So that's a personal favorite, cause that takes time to like send people things I get it.
Greg:Yeah, oh yeah, you're. Basically you're the way that I always viewed it, which is probably a negative way of viewing it. But, like, I'm valuing my time over somebody else's time and if I am unwilling to go the, I say it a few different ways, but one of the ways is I always ask myself where can I find the answer to this question before I ask it? Um, because if I just it's a lack of consideration, not always, like sometimes you just you know somebody knows something faster than you can go find it and the the time constraint to to things, or or or you know different things, like that. But like, generally speaking, it's a level of consideration for somebody else and their time. They're not spending their time just waiting for you to ask some questions, to go look for something for you.
Greg:There too, they have things going on, they have a life, whether professionally or personally, and so, like, for me, that became an important thing that I do instill with teams. A lot is like where can I find the answer to this? And then the follow up to that is like if I'm asking this question, somebody else probably is as well, and if it's not anywhere, how can I, how can I document it, or how can I store this to make it easy for the next person to find it without having to ask for it? So it's just that process recognition.
Parker:So that kind of relates to what you talked about earlier, which is meet people where they are but don't leave them there. Where did this come from, and how do you try and implement that both in your professional and personal life?
Greg:Yeah. So it's kind of my dad used to say all the time that leave things better than when you found them and over the years, like when you're a kid, you know it was don't leave a mess at a restaurant or you know, like if you throw something on the floor, pick it up or you know whatever, just kind of you know those early stages of like, diligence and discipline and like those types of things.
Greg:But over the years I just kind of watched him whether it was spoken or not spoken, as a, as a teacher I watched him do this with people as a teacher. Uh, I watched him do this with people all the time. Um, we growing up, we lived in uh, not the best area Um and uh. So a lot of the, a lot of the schools that my dad was administrator for a long time and a lot of schools that we went to, um, you know, naturally there were kids who struggled a little bit more Um and uh. I just watched him for years over invest with kids and he would. He would always kind of do this. Where it was like kids would get accepted into the school that we knew weren't up to a certain point, and he would. The first thing he would always do is figure out what they're doing now, where are they now, and then start working with them to figure out okay, well, how can we even if it's not, you know, get them to a standard of anything. How do we just make incremental improvements to help them feel success and feel growth? And I just watched him kind of pattern this over and over where eventually I I turned it into this meet people where they are but don't leave them there. Because I think it's really important first, that people feel heard and they feel understood where they are.
Greg:Because a lot of times people just come in and try and fix things. And I see this professionally where, like organization, new hires come in, new leadership comes in and they just start changing things to the way that they, that they used to do it. Or, as a person, you meet someone that you see problems with or you see things that they could improve in, and you just go in and start cutting and fixing. And people don't need that, organizations don't need that. It's a really bad direction to just come in and start changing things before you know all the answers and that person doesn't have a perspective or and how do you even know how to help somebody or be there for somebody if you don't understand them?
Greg:And so I watched him kind of pattern this over the years and so how that applies to like me and with my teams and stuff is like or just with people in general, is it's not my job to fix people? Uh, I just want to understand people, want to understand who you are, where you're coming from, what's important to you, what makes you tick as a person. And then if there's anything I can do to just improve your life or improve your day to day, I want to help, support that. Not change you, not fix you, not whatever, but like meet you where you are today and then how can I make an impact in somebody's life that makes them better tomorrow? And that's just kind of the goal for it and where it originated.
Parker:Everything that you just said I realized is like my mission statement for life. Like I was like oh, that's like really what I care about, like I love getting to know people and what makes them tick and like hearing their perspectives, and I think that's why I started the podcast in general, but also like I just want to do that for work. Like I just realized, like you just made this little light bulb come off that I'm like that's like my mission statement.
Greg:I've always thought it would like transition to like I don't know, some sort of like career development thing or like coaching or you know something, because, like I would, I'd be naive to think that I know everything about everything. But because of the way my brain processes things, I am pretty good at like in taking lots of information. First thinking like in taking lots of information, helping create a construct out of that and then thinking about ways to help improve and so well, I don't want, you know, enforce that on people or make it make it a thing on people. Necessarily, it is something that I'm pretty good at and I enjoy doing and do with things. So, anyways, that's that's where that, that's where that came from, and watching it modeled and and kind of what I not that I think everybody needs my help, but I think we all need each other.
Parker:Community is so important yeah.
Greg:And, like you know, you're really good at things that I'm horrible at, and I'm sure that there may be something that I'm okay, that that I can, that I can help and, like you know, it's how do we? Rising tide lifts all boats right? How do we? How do we help each other uh grow and know, make, uh, make an impact in everyone's lives.
Parker:Yeah, I love that. I love everything that you just said there. Um, what do you do, though, if? If people don't like willingly participate in that growth or they're not receptive to um kind of the change or change in general?
Greg:this is actually really hard for me and it's something that I'm working through because, objectively, I know the answer right it's like you can't. You can lead a horse to water, you can't force them to drink whatever those types of whatever those types of things are. So, objectively, I I understand conceptually that, like I can't force anything on anybody if they don't want to, if they don't want to change, whatever. Now, circumstances differ, right. So, like, if it's in a work setting and it's employee that's doing something they shouldn't or not doing something they should be doing and it's like a construct to it, then that's a coaching opportunity. And if they're still like, if they're just outright refusing not to improve from, like, a performance perspective, that's a different conversation. But like on a on a personal and relational level, objectively, it's not my job to fix anybody, it's not my job to enforce, and what works for me doesn't doesn't always work for everyone.
Greg:So, like, at some point you have to be able to to compartmentalize and just be there and be an example and be a support, how you can, knowing that, like, not everybody wants it and that's, that's fine, um, but I get personally and emotionally invested in people, probably, uh, probably more than um, yeah, I get emotionally invested in people because I care about people and, uh, I watched my, my family do this for years and so, like, um, it does hurt sometimes when, like, I'm investing so much in you and like there's no reciprocation or even, uh, appreciation sometimes, and so I'm getting better at knowing the limits and knowing the points, um, and like, not overextending and making sure that I, you know, protect myself and my time too, but that's a, that's a hard thing that I'm, that I'm working through is just like you know, you can only do so much and what.
Greg:At what point do you disengage? And then just model being the example Cause I think about it with my family too, like my dad could have, you know, told me what to do and you know, kind of effectively forced compliance with his rules or whatever, or with people right, Like you can't force others to do things, but I just watched him do that as an example for so many years and some people it stuck with and some people it didn't, and so I try to think of it that way, where it's like I can be a reminder, I can be a nice voice.
Parker:I can just be there and be that example. If it sticks, great. If it doesn't, I've done what I can. Yeah, technically you've still left it better and it's up to them to like continue and take that and run or not. Um, yeah, how, like if you were talking to somebody else, would you suggest they develop some kind of guidelines for their life or structure, or you know? Is this more of like a principles for life kind of thing, or is it more like here's some guidelines to just help you get through life?
Greg:Good question. I think naturally my answer is going to be yes, just because, like that's the way my brain works. Right, everybody works different, though. If I, you know, if I told uh, I told my wife, for example that like we were going to sit down and have family core values and like we were going to outline what our, what our plan is for the year or whatever, I doubt that that would go over super well.
Greg:But generally speaking, you know, the way that I look at it is how do I know what to do if I don't know where I'm going? Kind of a perspective, one of my other rules, or at least guidelines for things. As you've probably heard way too many times, if it's not outlined, it can't be executed, because so often people just kind of jump in and dive into the thing and then they don't really have a plan, and sometimes that's cool. Like you know, if you're on a road trip and you're like I'm kind of going here but like we'll just see what happens along the way, had some amazing moments like that, right, but but for the most part it's really difficult to get to your destination or get to the outcome that you want to achieve without having some sort of idea and I think I think about it in the same way with, like, how I operate as a person, what I want to be known for, what I want others to see when, when they talk to me, and so, yeah, it's like I would recommend it if there's a blanket statement for recommendation.
Greg:But everybody works differently, right, and the brand just thinks that way. But I do think it's important broadly to know what you're about and how you want to be known and where you want to go, because that sticks and it's easier to see. Not that there's not course correction, but it's easier to see. Am I, am I doing what is important? Again back to that prioritization Am I doing what's important? Am I acting the way that I should be acting? Am I supporting others the way that I should be, or is it all focused on me and what I can achieve?
Parker:So, to summarize, I feel like it's like knowing your values and when you want to be known for, and then for you it's adding the structure, so that you're doing things to go that back up, that kind of structure and value. Yeah, okay. So I'm going to throw you a couple curveballs, all right, I love it, let's go. If we're talking about how you want to be known, what are three words, or a statement, or something like that, that you think others would describe you as now Like how?
Greg:you would want to be known as. Oh, man Depends on who we're talking to.
Parker:That's fair, but in general like a consensus. This is what the consensus would be at your funeral, or something.
Greg:Oh well, uh, if it's my family talking, probably messy uh is one of those words.
Greg:So, uh, which is odd for somebody who who attempts to be so structured and organized, um, no, um, well, you used one of them earlier and I I would hope that that rings true with others too.
Greg:At present, I don't think that it's described me, um, as I've clearly outlined already and probably thrown myself under the bus a bit, but like uh, I think I'm better at it. Phone goes on the counter when, when I'm done at work, uh, until the kids go to bed and maybe I have to go back, but phone's on the counter as best as I can, um, when I'm on calls with people. You know, making sure that they know that like this is important. So I would say present would be one that I would hope people say, and, and I think they would I think generally people who only know me to a certain point would describe me as confident. I think people who really know me might not you can edit this one out if this one doesn't cut the mustard or whatever but maybe it's not confident, but it's articulate or something something to that effect.
Greg:I am incredibly introverted and incredibly insecure, but I have a pretty good way of of not coming across that way with other people or in circumstances that I that I need to have that level, and then I would probably say for the last one if I had to pick something, um. And then I would probably say for the last one if I had to pick something, um. I hope that people would, um, would feel and see a level of dedication in the things that I do, uh, or commitment to the things that I do. Not necessarily that it comes across as consistent, but, um, I work very hard and that's been a staple of of who I am as a person for a really long time, and I get feedback that people see that it's not always the right way, it's not, it's not the way that I would recommend for everyone, but that's something that I'm I've always really prided myself on right, wrong or indifferent is being willing to put in the work. So I think maybe people would say that too.
Parker:I don't know last question um, if you could say something to yourself, like maybe a year or a year and a half ago, when things were feeling pretty hard, like what would you say to yourself?
Greg:um, I think, like always, I would say, say don't let other people's perspectives and expectations impact what I do. I've spent a lot of time worried about what other people think and what they say and what I'm allowed to do or not allowed to do because of other people's perspectives or construct or opinion in my life, and I'm just now starting to get out of that mentality and so if I could go back, I would say just do all of the things that I wanted to do and not care so much about what it looks like or what other people think, because I've seen more growth difficult growth, but more growth in the last three months ish of just making those decisions, to step out and do those things rather than worry about what other people think.
Parker:Well, thank you for your time today. Thank you.
