Find Joy After Infertility

What happens when the future you've always imagined suddenly becomes impossible? Elin, who'd always pictured herself becoming a mom, experienced a miscarriage and later discovered her fertility level was practically zero after attempting to freeze her eggs, effectively closing the door on biological motherhood. 

The grief shook her identity to the core, but eventually the loss opened unexpected doors to a fulfilling life that looks nothing like she originally planned.

In this episode we talk through: 

• navigating the grief of a miscarriage
• discovering motherhood in nontraditional forms
• building empathy, compassion, and community
• finding joy in unexpected paths in life

About the Guest: 

Elin Michel-Midelfort is from Minneapolis, Minnesota and a recent transplant to Portland, Oregon. As the oldest of four kids with a working mom, Elin grew up taking care of children at an early age and believed her life was going to look very different than it has so far turned out. When Elin had a miscarriage at 27 and at 34 learned she had no fertility, her future and identity were turned upside down. Through a grieving and learning process she found a new way to look at herself and her life.  Elin currently works in investment real estate and has committed to apply this awareness to her daily life, and in adventures with her partner, Patricio, her dog Cas, and her three nephews.

Contact Info:

• Email: ElinMichelMidelfort@Gmail.com

Resource List:

• www.RESOLVE.ORG
• www.arcfertility.com

Podcast Intro and Outro  Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/moire/new-life

Thanks for listening! Find me @lessonstolearnbeforeyoudie. And if you enjoy the podcast, I'd really appreciate sharing the love (share an episode or leave me a review!)

Chapters

• 0:57 Elin's journey with grief and infertility
• 2:16 Growing up caring for siblings
• 5:49 The miscarriage at age 27
• 11:04 Identity crisis and questioning womanhood
• 14:56 Discovering infertility at 34
• 20:12 Moving across country for family
• 29:21 Finding new purpose beyond motherhood
• 34:46 The importance of community in healing
• 38:47 Gratitude for life's unexpected path

Transcript

Parker: 0:29

Today I'm speaking with Elin, whose story of joy and adaptation in the face of grief does include topics of miscarriage and infertility. Please be advised if these are sensitive subjects for you. Hello and welcome to the show.

Elin: 0:45

Thanks, parker. I'm so glad to be here.

Parker: 0:49

Today we're meeting with Elin. Elin is from Minneapolis, minnesota, and a recent ish transplant of Portland Oregon. After a miscarriage at 27 and subsequently learning at 34 that she had no fertility, her future plans and identity were turned upside down. Elin currently works in investment real estate and now adventures with her partner, Patricio and her dog Cass and her three nephews. So welcome to the show.

Elin: 1:25

Thank you, Parker. Very nice to be here and talk with you today.

Parker: 1:34

So kind of a heavy topic today, but an important one. So let's start off kind of back in the history. So you grew up as the oldest of four kids with a working mom and you were taking care of children at an early age. How do you feel like this shaped your desires and expectations for your life?

Elin: 1:48

As the oldest of four with a stay-at-home dad in the 80s and 90s, that was highly irregular my mom is still a practicing doctor and was working extremely long hours was excited to help out and be a part of my dad's kind of co-parenting.

Elin: 2:22

That was needed and I, at the age of 12, because I had so much experience taking care of my siblings started babysitting for other kids in my primary school and I was really good at it, but I also really enjoyed it.

Elin: 2:44

I felt it was so nice to be a part of these kids' lives and help them and, being at that time not much older, I felt like I could really identify with whatever they might be going through and found so much value in being being part of children's lives. I was doing that every week and when I graduated college, my first job out of college was at the children's museum and because I had been, I never questioned that I was going to be part of children's lives and that came from my mom, unfortunately working really long hours, but it also taught me about working hard and providing for your family and how important her family was meant that she was working outside of the home, so it was a different dynamic, but it allowed me to be really valuable with other kids and other families and that was really special to me early on.

Parker: 3:38

So you just always knew that you wanted to have kids and be around kids, and that was just like the set for your life.

Elin: 3:47

I thought as a teenager that I would be married at 21 and have kids at 23.

Parker: 3:53

Isn't it funny how our childhood and teenage expectations are so off, you know that was such a funny idea.

Elin: 4:08

And I met my now ex-husband when I was 16. And we were high school sweethearts. We went to college together. I knew that I wanted kids and I also felt at that time there was a lot of indication from older people wait to have kids, wait to have kids. And my mom had me when she was 34. And then she had three more kids. So in the nineties she was, she had her youngest at when she was 41. So I, even though I wanted kids, I also felt like I had a lot of time and I had no one in my life telling me you know, you should have kids now. You know, don't wait too long. I felt like it was the opposite in my, in my experience was you got tons of time, tons of time. Wait till you're older, you know, um. So that was an interesting dynamic, given what I've experienced since then you did not have kids at 21.

Parker: 5:21

Um, and unfortunately, at 27, you had a miscarriage. Do you want to walk me through that?

Elin: 5:23

experience? Yeah, I it was. It was an interesting time because I had waited for what I felt like was a long time. I had been married for three years almost four and we had a house and we got a dog and we kind of set everything into place. We were in a good ish place in our relationship, as good as we'd been, and decided okay, we're going to try to have kids.

Elin: 5:53

And I got pregnant right away, right away I think it was maybe the first or second month that we had tried and I was really excited and since, of course, learned why so many people wait to tell people. But we started telling a lot of people I think about six to eight weeks felt like that was enough time and I, at 11 weeks, went in for my ultrasound which was the expectation that this is the first time that you hear the baby's, the fetus's heartbeat and went in and had jelly on my stomach and the ultrasound technician was working her magic and there was no sound and I could tell from the look that she was giving and then leaving the room that something was very wrong. The doctor came in and said we're not finding a heartbeat. She looked and said it looks like you've had a missed miscarriage, which I had never heard that term, but what I found out that that meant was that my body was still acting like I was pregnant.

Elin: 7:20

It was still understanding all of that hormone and change but the fetus was no longer growing alive, sustaining life, and so what they said is based on that, and we don't know how long this has been going on, but we are going to have you go into the hospital and have a DNC, which means that you are essentially the equivalent of what some women do for an abortion and they remove the pregnancy.

Elin: 7:55

And it it was. When I even look back on it, I I went into shock, for sure, because it was a very gray, everything was blurry, I couldn't understand what's going on and then, of course, having the procedure, just I was out of body really.

Elin: 8:16

And they asked if they, if I should be, if I wanted to be put out for the procedure, and I said yes. I didn't want to have any memory of that. So I came out of that in a lot of shock and a lot of emotional pain. I mean 11 weeks I'd already set up some of the nursery and I had books and you know, little things of clothing that I had started and that was a really devastating time.

Elin: 8:49

And it was also looking back, I realized it was the beginning. The miscarriage was the beginning of the end of effectively me realizing that my marriage was in very deep trouble and was not meant to be. I started finding that I felt really alone. Finding that I felt really alone, I felt like no one understood the pain that that was, that I was at that time around a number of other people who had families started and everyone said you want to try again as soon as you can, and one. I was given no explanation, which was very confusing, about why that happened or whether there was anything to do to make sure that I would be okay to try again. No one helped with that, and so I was left to think it was up to my own timeline and um, and so I realized I needed to start taking care of myself alone.

Elin: 9:49

So I was. I felt very alone at that time and very isolated, and for me it was the beginning of the end of my marriage, which was also devastating. But it was a very confusing experience and, yeah, I felt very alone. I didn't feel prepared at that time, I wasn't given resources to talk to anyone or felt really embarrassed too that I had told people and I didn't know how to talk about it. So that was, that was the immediate time around the miscarriage at 27.

Parker: 10:26

And I imagine from what I've heard from other women who have miscarriages is that not a lot of people talk about it. So I think it's probably a lot more common than people realize. But naturally it's a difficult thing to talk about and I completely understand why people wouldn't. But I can also understand how that could exacerbate that feeling of being alone Absolutely.

Elin: 10:55

And you start. For me, it started the question about what it is to be a woman and what it is to be considered. You know a wife, you know a mother. All of these things started coming into question. I felt like, am I not?

Elin: 11:16

as you know, good if I, if I can't have this experience, it's really. It started making me understand what women go through, that have trouble getting pregnant and realizing how many people see themselves. As you know, it's really an identifier for women about who they are, can be, and I feel like that's a huge society pressure, obviously, which makes it, I think, harder to talk about when it actually happens. Even though I knew the stats, I knew that at that point I heard 50% of pregnancies and in miscarriage. A lot of times women don't know that they've even had one because it's a couple of days late in your cycle and you're not even aware that you might've had a chemical pregnancy.

Elin: 12:02

And I knew that, and yet I I felt without any ability to decipher who I talked to, how to because I wasn't given answers. There was no clarity about what this meant, so that felt hard to establish a way to connect with people about it.

Parker: 12:22

And you mentioned that it started to question your identity as a woman and all these things and that people had said to go ahead and try right away. But your marriage was also falling apart, but you didn't give up yet on being a mother, right.

Elin: 12:40

That's right.

Parker: 12:41

You eventually tried to freeze your eggs, is that right?

Elin: 12:51

eventually tried to freeze your eggs. Is that right? Yeah, so I. I subsequently, after getting out of my marriage a little while later, I got into a relationship with someone for six years, and they were someone that really had had, you know, some background in their family that made them think I don't want to be a parent. That's not something I'm looking for, and so one knowing that my mom had me at 34 and my youngest brother at 41,.

Elin: 13:18

I thought okay, well, I have time and at 32, with communication to him. At that time I decided to get off my birth control and leave things up to chance, which now, in retrospect, thinking you know, very interesting that I never ended up getting pregnant at that time. But when that relationship ended, immediately I was thinking I'm 34.

Parker: 13:47

This is I know when.

Elin: 13:48

I've heard so much storytelling about this is the time when you know women's fertility starts to wane and it's really important to consider whether you want kids at this time, because you become you can become a geriatric mother, pregnancy, I guess and so I thought, okay, I'm not with someone, but I know that I've always thought I would have kids. That's part of my identity is I'm going to be a mom. And I decided, well, I have some, I have some money, I'm going to go preserve my chance to be a mom. So I'm going to go freeze my eggs, which is turns out quite an expensive thing. And I went in for the testing and they test I believe it's called your AMH, which is your level of fertility.

Elin: 14:38

And I went in really excited I'm doing the right thing, I'm preserving the chance to do, to do this lifelong goal that I've had identity and found out that the course that they need you to take when you start that is essentially the first half of in vitro. But instead of implanting a pregnancy, they freeze, freeze, they freeze the eggs, they test for what levels they find a minimum to be in order to risk doing this, which needs to be a 1.0 AMH, and mine came back at 0.1 0.1, which is essentially zero.

Elin: 15:21

I don't know if they go all the way to zero, but at that time I I thought like what Like?

Elin: 15:30

just that can't be right, and so my mom being a doctor, I they said that's really low and super irregular, so we're going to have you come in and we're going to do an ultrasound to actually see what your ovaries look like and understand what's maybe going on. Maybe this is an error on our side. Well, I went in with my mom as support and found out that no, indeed, it was 0.1. And they said we will not freeze your eggs. You have a better chance of trying to get pregnant on your own. It's you know. They didn't say impossible because I don't think they want to tell women that, but essentially we can't.

Elin: 16:09

I could have got pregnant maybe not but that I thought I was had plenty of time. I thought I was, I would have plenty of time. I preserved the chance that all women had fertility ending at the same time, that it kind of dropped off, and that's not the case. I found out which was mystifying, especially knowing that I'd had a miscarriage and that no one had said you should check this out or you should check your fertility levels. So I went in thinking I was preserving my chance to be a mother, and found out that no, there's not even the option to preserve that chance. And so it really I.

Elin: 17:09

I was in heavy, heavy grief Then, luckily, I will say, at that moment in time I wasn't craving to be a mom. I thought, maybe because I had so much time, it wasn't this thing that I felt like I needed to do right now. So the grief was just what am I if I'm not going to be a mother like? That's what I see for my life, that's what I see as a source of fulfillment for myself. And so I, I went into kind of a spiritual quest at that point to understand myself in a different way and I also started to recognize, wow, I, I really set a pretty narrow focus for my life, which was also felt really debilitating when you realize that that plan that you have isn't going to go that direction. So I realized, when I started to go through that grief and feel all of that I I needed to take my blinders off and see what else there might be for my life.

Parker: 18:19

Um, I want to come back to that, but first I want to talk about um, the, the grief process and like, if you knew somebody else either going through a miscarriage or dealing with fertility issues like, what advice would you? Great?

Elin: 18:43

question, really be who I was and not hide some of these big questions that I was having and big pain and sadness about who I was, what I was going to be, what was going to be in my life, and to be able to start sharing that with people that I trust, about what was really going on and that was it, took some time. I don't think for a while I had even the vocabulary. I'm more of an internal processor and so it. It was not a first inclination to start sharing that. It was like I don't even know what's going on with me. I don't know how I feel, I don't know what I think, I don't know what's up or down. It just it was like someone pulled the rug underneath, from underneath me. It just it was like someone pulled the rug underneath from underneath me.

Elin: 19:47

What am I doing Like? What is my life right now? So it took some time to realize I I'm going to probably stay in some element of this in my grief If I don't start to write it down, I don't start to talk about it, I don't express those feelings which I'm not. I thought I was a big expressor feelings. But actually when someone says, feel your feelings.

Parker: 20:14

I'm like what does that?

Elin: 20:17

mean, I did a lot of crying and I also accepted that when there were days that I didn't want to see people with kids, that I couldn't even talk to my friends that had easily had kids or I didn't think could understand me or would maybe brush over that, or try and you know, tell me the silver lining, or did you try it?

Elin: 20:39

adoption, or you know, trying to solve that for me, that I didn't need to put myself in situations that I wasn't ready to hold my own space on and say you know what, no, it's not like that for me, or no, I'm not ready for that, or I don't want to talk about that, or this is what's happening for me. I had to be confident in my own experience first to go into conversation and share that and be vulnerable, because not everyone's going to understand that, especially if they've not interacted with someone that's been through fertility challenges.

Parker: 21:15

Yeah Well, and grief is not a linear right and it can pop up in unexpected moments and um moments, and there's likely probably a little bit of it with you. But you have now gone through these two kind of major experiences of loss and you've started a spiritual journey towards kind of figuring out who you are. How did you adjust your life and expectations moving forward?

Elin: 21:48

It was I think, like any very painful experience, any kind of change like that or re-identification of yourself, it's like this canyon exists in front of you. It's like what is next? I'm stepping off a ledge. There's just this huge open space and that's really scary and it's also really freeing because I realized I had set my sights so specifically on biologically having my own children. That to see, wow, there sister came to me and said I'm pregnant with her first and she was really scared to talk to me about it, thinking I don't know what this is going to trigger, if this is going to be super painful for Elin and luckily I had done a lot of grieving and letting myself feel all the feelings and be pissed off and restrict myself in ways that felt safe for me to get through the process and really allow myself to be pissed and feel alone, and feel all those things because those feelings are real.

Elin: 23:24

They're not always factual, because it turns out I'm not alone. Of course, there's so many women that go through this, but when you're, when you're in that you think no one understands me, you know. And when she told me that I hadn't, thankfully, nothing but excitement and joy for her and just this freedom, like wow, I'm not, I'm not resentful and I thought that I would be. I thought that anyone close to me that got to have that experience that I had for so long wanted to have personally, it was. It was really freeing to say okay, like maybe I can be close to this person even though she gets something I don't get. You know, there was none of that left, thankfully.

Elin: 24:12

And what ended up happening, which was a complete change in my life and really transformed this huge piece of loss in my life and my identity, was that she started asking me to come out and visit her in Portland Oregon when she was pregnant and when she had Talus.

Elin: 24:34

I came out right away and spent a lot of time with them and I was that time going back and forth after Talos was born, every month, secretly, hoping, but not wanting to say, because it felt too big to orchestrate that. This little boy, who was as close to my own genes as I was maybe ever gonna get, was super special to me. And how can I be more involved in his life when I live in Minnesota? And my boss at that time came to me and said you know, if you ever think about moving to Portland, talk to me, we'll figure it out. Which was a shock because my company was only based in Minneapolis. And a week later my sister came to me and said my, my best friend, has a house opening right next to her. There's no way you'd ever want to move here, right, because it was more than they needed, more than they were willing to, you know, pay for on their own.

Elin: 25:37

And and I said, well, yeah call them back and tell them yes, I just had this huge opening for my boss and then my condo that I was living in. My cousin needed a place to live. All these pieces fell into place and I thought, wow, I really shortchanged myself in what it meant to be a mom. There are so many other ways that I can experience motherhood, and maybe that means being a super close auntie to my nephew.

Elin: 26:10

And so I ended up getting to spend five years living with my sister and Talis, and then her second baby, and being a part of their daily lives. I could have never expected how rewarding that would be. And they're not my, they're not my kids, and yet they what I realized I wanted, which didn't have to exist just in the idea of being a mother to my own kids, but that I want to be in a child's life, I want to invest there, I want to have a connection, have that bond you know, have a, have an experience that is seeing someone through their life and supporting them and loving them, and that doesn't have to just be from my own biological having a kid.

Parker: 27:03

Um, as somebody who had like complicated life growing up, I can tell you there were definitely parental or influential figures in my life that weren't necessarily my biological parents like I love my mother to death but I also had other people who made a difference and I think the more people in their lives that are influential, the better. Right, like that's a support system for them too. So it can go both ways and I just I love how I feel like when doors are supposed to open, they just open and it just feels like everything falls together and it's almost like the universe is like hey, and you're like oh, like look how this is all just working Literally came together and there's no way, looking back, and even in the moment I realized if I would have wanted that and tried to manage and make that happen, there's no way that I could have made that happen.

Elin: 28:00

Where would I work? Where would I live? What would I do with my condo? All of that happened on its own. I didn't force that, and so it really felt like well, I am definitely meant to be in this kid's life. I'm meant to be in my sister's life in a new way. I'm meant to explore this whole new life that I never thought I would. I've never dreamed of moving to the West Coast.

Parker: 28:24

I didn't either growing up, but I absolutely loved it. So, yes, well, when we were chatting before we recorded this, you mentioned a Jennifer Aniston quote that you and her have something in common, and the quote is there's a pressure on women to be mothers, and if they're not, then they're deemed damaged. Good, maybe my purpose on this planet isn't to procreate, maybe I have other things I'm supposed to do, so I wanted to ask you what do you believe your purpose is now, if it's not to be a direct biological mother?

Elin: 29:03

So great that you asked that. When I read that I thought, whoa, someone who's been in a lot of light, a lot of pressure and probably gets asked constantly, that would be quite a lot to have to respond to, right and so and I identify completely with that I people ask me all the time well, you still have time to have kids, and I you know, I it.

Elin: 29:33

It's one of my, one of my biggest lessons learned out of these periods of losses Don't assume anything about anyone. You have no idea what someone's gone through, and a lot of people say that innocently, or they feel bad or they don't know how to address it, and so that's their responses oh, you still have time, and it's like one. You don't know. If that person can't have kids, isn't is choosing not to for some reason, that's not your business, but that that's not, that's not our only path, and so I think one of the things that was very surprising and really exciting about how my life has changed is I identified prior to all of this as chasing fairly typical dreams I would say pretty standard American dreams get married, have a house, get kids, vacation, have all the things.

Elin: 30:29

And I realized that through this I am not a very typical person and there are a lot of things that I get to experience because I have a different path in front of me that is not with my own kids, and so I think the adventuring and growing and changing and learning and seeing more of the world has been super valuable and pushing myself in different ways, because I think parenthood obviously pushes you in immense ways.

Elin: 31:01

I can't I can't even imagine what it pushes you to on a daily basis, but I get to push myself in a lot of other ways. So how you and I met at the CrossFit gym, I could have never imagined going to CrossFit, but I think even just moving out to the west coast, like like that's I was a pretty, I stayed in safe places similar to that blinder idea, I didn't think of all these ways that my life could expand, and so I feel like it's been this massive expansive experience of my life, but also for myself, like what are all these other things that I enjoy that I haven't even been able to experience? I just this I just turned 43 this summer and I surfed for the first time on my birthday, that seems like it would be so hard but so cool.

Parker: 31:51

I did see you bungee jump. I was like, oh my gosh, look at her.

Elin: 31:55

It's actually the second time I've done that and it was. You know, I'm sure if I had kids I would not be jumping off a bridge and so doing some things that make me feel alive in different ways and value my life in different ways. I think that's one huge thing that feels purposeful to me. But more than that, being able to talk about this and when I share about myself authentically, which now I'm close with, that they have gone through.

Elin: 32:42

I've now met two met. I've had friends who have had missed miscarriages. That's happened twice, which is a pretty irregular thing and I know that if I wouldn't have shared of myself first and said this is what happened to me, this is how it impacted me, this is how I grew through that. What happened to me, this is how it impacted me, this is how I grew through that, I know that I wouldn't have been able to engage in such intimacy and receive that from them either. So for me, having this community of women and learn that there's so many challenges women go through to experience motherhood, it's been really impactful and it feels, um, I feel really so much closer to a lot of people. I know I wouldn't have that same chance.

Parker: 33:29

Um, I know you've mentioned that sharing it and building a community is incredibly important to you and that's probably a new thing for you, but would you recommend other people try and find community and share, like I imagine it, in a place and time that feels comfortable for them? But I imagine that it is comforting to know that somebody else can understand on a level that others who haven't gone through it can't understand.

Elin: 33:59

Absolutely yes, I really do recommend that there are so many grief groups and support groups, and I think even more in the last couple of years. Perhaps it's because I'm more open to it, I'm looking for it and I'm engaging with it, but I had no idea how many groups there are for women who have lost pregnancies at any length and it really can impact you and how you feel about yourself and your life and it can be something that you can struggle with alone. And for me, I don't think I would have grieved fully and been able to let go of my identity as that in that way if I wouldn't have shared it. I really don't. It was really important for me to have that strength from other people and not feel alone and learn what other people did to grow and feel supported.

Parker: 35:10

Yeah, it's amazing how community can um, I don't know, I feel like I am most alone when I feel like I don't have a community and most grateful, I guess, when I do, because community can bring joy and understanding and comfort and like strength when you don't have it. And yeah, I just I'm so glad that you now feel like you're in a space to share that.

Elin: 35:32

Yes, I think it depends on everyone's timing and place and personality. But some people find that in a one-on-one situation maybe it's even just therapy. It could be with a really good friend, it could be. There's a lot of anonymous groups that I've participated in that if you feel uncomfortable having other people know who you are and have that kind of public exposure, there are a lot of rooms that you can go into that are anonymous, that you don't have to walk away and think how is that going to impact me later. So I think there's so many different ways and obviously there's lots of books and lots of things that you could do on your own. But I think sharing that with one person individually or in a group or with a therapist or however you do it, that's up to you and what's right for you. But I highly advocate for not just keeping that within your own mind, your own space, to let it come out when you're ready.

Parker: 36:38

If you could go back and tell Elin at 27 something. What would you say?

Elin: 36:55

I was not expecting to get emotional. And there your life is going to be full and you have a wide array of experiences available for you. Even if you want to stay in that idea of a mother, love yourself and and um, accept what feels really hard to face, to not avoid it, um, yeah, and seek support, yeah, yeah talking to our younger self actually always seems to make us emotional, so it's okay, yeah, yeah, sometimes it's kind of healing, actually.

Parker: 37:46

I think to to talk to a younger version of ourselves. Yeah, see how far you come in a way, or don't comfort them, you know, um, okay, well, I would love to end on a um, happy note. We've we've talked about grief and accepting a new version of your life and identity, um, and we've talked about support. What are you grateful for what are you grateful?

Elin: 38:19

for it's really interesting to feel this way, but I feel grateful for all of it. I don't have any regrets. I don't. I really don't, which is so bizarre, knowing how painful certain parts of this have been. I couldn't have. I wouldn't ask that for anyone, but for me having the life that I have right now. I'm I'm grateful that I've been able to move and be a part of my nephew's lives and meet Patricio, my partner, and have this huge exploration in a whole other part of the country. I couldn't have expected. I feel grateful for all of it and, underneath that, even this gift that it is to have gone through some kind of loss for me. Is this really deep compassion for people who have been through something painful?

Elin: 39:16

whether that's miscarriage, fertility issues or not. It brings me to a level of humility. There's a lot of things that have come fairly easy for me in my life and this feels like a very obvious, painful lack at certain points, like I don't get to have this thing that I really wanted and it allows me to feel really compassionate and a lot of empathy for people who have gone through hard times, and that's being able to connect with other people who are in a painful place and not having to shy away from someone that's struggling. I feel super grateful for that. Away from someone that's struggling, I feel super grateful for that.

Parker: 40:04

I don't think there's enough of that in this world right now, as people that can say I don't know exactly what you're going through, but I've been through some pain and I can identify that that's super hard and I can give you some grace, yeah, so I do feel like empathy is very much needed in this world, and I know that you experience joy and a full life and I know that you bless and comfort the people around you, and I'm just so grateful to have met you and gotten to spend time with you and, hopefully, that I get to share some of this message with other people who might need to hear it.

Elin: 40:47

Super honored to share it and to know you and be a friend to you and be in each other's lives. It's been awesome. I look forward to more.

Parker: 40:59

All right. Well, that is our time today, so thank you so much. Thanks, parker.